Comments on: Findlay Market, Taste of Belgium, and wine me, dine me say No on Nine http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/ (in Cincinnati) Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:38:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A Little Bit of Politics: No on 9 « My Wine Education http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4416 A Little Bit of Politics: No on 9 « My Wine Education Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:50:17 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4416 [...] on this. I really wish I could. And in the interest of keeping this brief, I’ll direct you to Wine Me, Dine Me and the Hoperatives. Both of those blogs have written wonderfully informed posts about how voting [...] [...] on this. I really wish I could. And in the interest of keeping this brief, I’ll direct you to Wine Me, Dine Me and the Hoperatives. Both of those blogs have written wonderfully informed posts about how voting [...]

]]> By: Katie F http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4334 Katie F Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:42:32 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4334 Another state government official (besides the Governor) voices his concern about Issue 9, and how it will effect other passenger rail (not just the streetcar) http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/091016_3_willie.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=CINCINNATI-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1209&STATION_ID=WLW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=700WLW&PCAST_CAT=Talk_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Bill_Cunningham_On_Demand Another state government official (besides the Governor) voices his concern about Issue 9, and how it will effect other passenger rail (not just the streetcar)

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/091016_3_willie.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=CINCINNATI-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1209&STATION_ID=WLW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=700WLW&PCAST_CAT=Talk_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Bill_Cunningham_On_Demand

]]> By: Katie F http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4333 Katie F Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:25:03 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4333 One addition to my comment. Jim, I would encourage you to listen to Bill Cunningham's take on the issue. Like you, he is a strong opponent of the streetcar, but (unlike you) he's also an opponent of Issue 9 (which he calls ridiculous). http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/091020_1_willie.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=CINCINNATI-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1209&STATION_ID=WLW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=700WLW&PCAST_CAT=Talk_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Bill_Cunningham_On_Demand One addition to my comment.

Jim,

I would encourage you to listen to Bill Cunningham’s take on the issue. Like you, he is a strong opponent of the streetcar, but (unlike you) he’s also an opponent of Issue 9 (which he calls ridiculous).

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/091020_1_willie.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=CINCINNATI-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1209&STATION_ID=WLW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=700WLW&PCAST_CAT=Talk_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Bill_Cunningham_On_Demand

]]> By: Katie F http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4332 Katie F Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:05:10 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4332 Jim, This is not an opportunity to vote against the streetcar. It is a vote against all passenger rail. It was sold as a vote against the streetcar, but it's not. That's why the Enquirer called it a "poison pill ammendment," that is "deceptive, deceitful and divisive." http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090808/EDIT01/908090343/1019/EDIT/Editorial++Derail+Charter+amendment That's also why the president and CEO of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber (which opposes Issue 9, but has no position of the streetcar) said, "I don't believe that a no vote on the referendum equals a yes vote on the streetcar." http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/908090304 Plain and simple. If this ammendment passes, it could make us ineligible for stimulus funds to build the 3C rail project (Cleveland to Columbus to Cincinnati) because the money has time restrictions on when it needs to be spent and it will take us a year (not to mention 1/2 a million dollars) to hold the election. We will simple not be competitive for the money. That's why Governor Strickland warned, "it could have a potentially detrimental impact on the city." Chris Finney knows this, and that's why he wrote the ammendment to delay ALL passenger rail projects, not just the streetcar. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090715/NEWS0108/907160320 If you want a vote on the streetcar, start a referendum about the streetcar. This is not it. Jim,

This is not an opportunity to vote against the streetcar. It is a vote against all passenger rail. It was sold as a vote against the streetcar, but it’s not. That’s why the Enquirer called it a “poison pill ammendment,” that is “deceptive, deceitful and divisive.”

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090808/EDIT01/908090343/1019/EDIT/Editorial++Derail+Charter+amendment

That’s also why the president and CEO of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber (which opposes Issue 9, but has no position of the streetcar) said, “I don’t believe that a no vote on the referendum equals a yes vote on the streetcar.”

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090806/NEWS01/908090304

Plain and simple. If this ammendment passes, it could make us ineligible for stimulus funds to build the 3C rail project (Cleveland to Columbus to Cincinnati) because the money has time restrictions on when it needs to be spent and it will take us a year (not to mention 1/2 a million dollars) to hold the election. We will simple not be competitive for the money. That’s why Governor Strickland warned, “it could have a potentially detrimental impact on the city.” Chris Finney knows this, and that’s why he wrote the ammendment to delay ALL passenger rail projects, not just the streetcar.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090715/NEWS0108/907160320

If you want a vote on the streetcar, start a referendum about the streetcar. This is not it.

]]> By: 5chw4r7z http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4331 5chw4r7z Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:02:00 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4331 FYI: Voting yes on 9 won't stop the streetcar. Its a vote on whether we want to vote on the streetcar. So if 9 passes, there will be another vote on whether we want the the streetcar. But hey the streetcar has only been drug out since '05, how long did the Banks drag out? 10 yrs? You native Cincinnatians sure love your bureaucracy. FYI: Voting yes on 9 won’t stop the streetcar.
Its a vote on whether we want to vote on the streetcar.
So if 9 passes, there will be another vote on whether we want the the streetcar.
But hey the streetcar has only been drug out since ’05, how long did the Banks drag out? 10 yrs?
You native Cincinnatians sure love your bureaucracy.

]]> By: Tom Wilson http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4327 Tom Wilson Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:46:13 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4327 Light rail will happen, sooner or later. Eventually we will run out of room for expressways and cars (and money for gasoline and oil). Be careful hiding your head in the sand. You might eventually get run over or die from exhaust fumes. Light rail will happen, sooner or later. Eventually we will run out of room for expressways and cars (and money for gasoline and oil). Be careful hiding your head in the sand. You might eventually get run over or die from exhaust fumes.

]]> By: Phil http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4325 Phil Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:02:36 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4325 I disagree totally. Leaving it up to our so called elected officials is not working so well these days. Just look at the President and Congress right now on what they are doing to "FIX" healthcare. Every so called fix they have come up with so far will have the opposite effect and end up destroying the system and raising costs for everyone. The "elected official" that came up with this streetcar boondoggle is no different. Obviously when our "elected officials" stop representing those who got them in office something is wrong. Just who are they really representing, THEMSELVES is the answer. I live in the county and am therefore a victim of the incompetency of our City officials as well that I cannot VOTE on. I'm paying for an extra 5% sales tax to Mike Brown and property taxes that increase every year. Taxes are at point that no one can even think of retiring. How can someone on a fixed income keep up with the taxes that keep getting levied upon us. So Yes, if I could actually vote on Issue 9, I would vote for it. At least my vote would be counted and not rely on someone who does not represent me. I disagree totally. Leaving it up to our so called elected officials is not working so well these days. Just look at the President and Congress right now on what they are doing to “FIX” healthcare. Every so called fix they have come up with so far will have the opposite effect and end up destroying the system and raising costs for everyone.

The “elected official” that came up with this streetcar boondoggle is no different. Obviously when our “elected officials” stop representing those who got them in office something is wrong. Just who are they really representing, THEMSELVES is the answer.

I live in the county and am therefore a victim of the incompetency of our City officials as well that I cannot VOTE on. I’m paying for an extra 5% sales tax to Mike Brown and property taxes that increase every year. Taxes are at point that no one can even think of retiring. How can someone on a fixed income keep up with the taxes that keep getting levied upon us.

So Yes, if I could actually vote on Issue 9, I would vote for it. At least my vote would be counted and not rely on someone who does not represent me.

]]> By: Jim Carr http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4322 Jim Carr Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:44:41 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4322 Here is the big picture. The streetcar plan is set up to fail. You can't go forward with something like that with key constituencies dug in against you. Which is what we have today. A failed plan like this will only add fuel to the fire of distrust of local government. There is so much anti-business feeling in important neighborhoods, and so much serious crime, that expending energy elsewhere and opening up political rifts in the process is counterproductive. The mayor needs to be selling the plans, and selling himself, before any thing even on the streetcar scale is launched. Until that happens, this would just be digging a deeper hole. City government does not have a good track record with their projects and expected payoffs. Empire Theater, Owning the Realty, Cable car to Mt. Adams, Skywalks yea/nay, Entertainment district, Fountain Square re-re-redevelopment, the Blanks, and of course Ft. Square West. But that is no reason to not try something new. However doing such a project before some progress is made on the distrust, fear of change, and lack of public safety is deadly. Not saying those all have to be fixed; that may not be possible. But how about the key players just agreeing to work for the same things? I'm primarily talking about the NAACP here. COAST has no real influence, at least on the city electorate, the ones who haven't had a Republican mayor since 1971. I need to see our mayor inspiring the key groups to join him, then maybe I can believe the streetcar has a chance. Before that it could actually be a disaster. Here is the big picture.
The streetcar plan is set up to fail. You can’t go forward with something like that with key constituencies dug in against you. Which is what we have today. A failed plan like this will only add fuel to the fire of distrust of local government.
There is so much anti-business feeling in important neighborhoods, and so much serious crime, that expending energy elsewhere and opening up political rifts in the process is counterproductive.
The mayor needs to be selling the plans, and selling himself, before any thing even on the streetcar scale is launched. Until that happens, this would just be digging a deeper hole.
City government does not have a good track record with their projects and expected payoffs. Empire Theater, Owning the Realty, Cable car to Mt. Adams, Skywalks yea/nay, Entertainment district, Fountain Square re-re-redevelopment, the Blanks, and of course Ft. Square West. But that is no reason to not try something new. However doing such a project before some progress is made on the distrust, fear of change, and lack of public safety is deadly. Not saying those all have to be fixed; that may not be possible. But how about the key players just agreeing to work for the same things? I’m primarily talking about the NAACP here. COAST has no real influence, at least on the city electorate, the ones who haven’t had a Republican mayor since 1971.
I need to see our mayor inspiring the key groups to join him, then maybe I can believe the streetcar has a chance. Before that it could actually be a disaster.

]]> By: 5chw4r7z http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4316 5chw4r7z Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:27:51 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4316 Jim, You're blindly following leaders YOU elected? I'm not. I can only feel sorry for you. Guess I won't see you on any of my streetcar victory parties as we ride around OTR. Peace out and take care. Jim,
You’re blindly following leaders YOU elected? I’m not.
I can only feel sorry for you.
Guess I won’t see you on any of my streetcar victory parties as we ride around OTR.

Peace out and take care.

]]> By: Jim Carr http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/2009/10/findlay-market-taste-of-belgium-and-wine-me-dine-me-say-no-on-nine/comment-page-1/#comment-4315 Jim Carr Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:54:57 +0000 http://winemedinemecincinnati.com/?p=1638#comment-4315 5chw4r7z So one either blindly follows our all-seeing and all-knowing city leaders, or one is ignorant. Most of the things our leaders have told us over the last 30 years have been either wrong or dead wrong. After expensive commissions and fact-finding tours. And regarding the speculation. Sorry, it was just the Enquirer reporting the speculation of some politicians and ex-pols. "At a news conference at a Walnut Hills cafe, two former Republican state Senate presidents and a Democratic state representative from Hamilton County said that Issue 9's requirement of public votes on the proposed Cincinnati streetcar system and other rail plans could cause state and federal officials to simply bypass the city when planning future transportation networks. If Issue 9 is approved, former state Sen. President Stanley Aronoff said, officials in Columbus and Washington, hoping to sidestep entanglement in local politics and potentially costly delays, may begin excluding Cincinnati from future major rail plans." Sounds like scare tactics. The only actual leader is one of the Driehaus clan, who is speculating. Again, I think rail would drive investment, but not this cute streetcar thing, more a regional light rail. If people really need some cool transit to OTR, I think the electric cars from OTR would be dynamite. And unique. And inexpensive. Maybe we could even get everyone on board with that plan. BTW, I have seen a lot of people making comments on key differences between the Portland streetcar thing (only part of their solution), and the Cincinnati proposal. Not to mention the really big problem - with 70% more population, they have the number of murders in 3 years that we have in 1. We need everyone pulling together on that situation, which is a big reason we don't need silly issues like the streetcar alienating chunks of the electorate. If folks figure out that yes is no, this is going down 70-30. 5chw4r7z
So one either blindly follows our all-seeing and all-knowing city leaders, or one is ignorant. Most of the things our leaders have told us over the last 30 years have been either wrong or dead wrong. After expensive commissions and fact-finding tours.

And regarding the speculation. Sorry, it was just the Enquirer reporting the speculation of some politicians and ex-pols. “At a news conference at a Walnut Hills cafe, two former Republican state Senate presidents and a Democratic state representative from Hamilton County said that Issue 9′s requirement of public votes on the proposed Cincinnati streetcar system and other rail plans could cause state and federal officials to simply bypass the city when planning future transportation networks.
If Issue 9 is approved, former state Sen. President Stanley Aronoff said, officials in Columbus and Washington, hoping to sidestep entanglement in local politics and potentially costly delays, may begin excluding Cincinnati from future major rail plans.”

Sounds like scare tactics. The only actual leader is one of the Driehaus clan, who is speculating.

Again, I think rail would drive investment, but not this cute streetcar thing, more a regional light rail. If people really need some cool transit to OTR, I think the electric cars from OTR would be dynamite. And unique. And inexpensive. Maybe we could even get everyone on board with that plan.

BTW, I have seen a lot of people making comments on key differences between the Portland streetcar thing (only part of their solution), and the Cincinnati proposal. Not to mention the really big problem – with 70% more population, they have the number of murders in 3 years that we have in 1. We need everyone pulling together on that situation, which is a big reason we don’t need silly issues like the streetcar alienating chunks of the electorate.

If folks figure out that yes is no, this is going down 70-30.

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